Author Topic: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List  (Read 54315 times)

CanadianBaconz

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2014, 09:42:29 pm »
I feel like it wouldn't have a huge amount of use anyways, given the huge meter cost, but it would have been fun for shenanigans.

demeteloaf

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2014, 09:49:42 pm »
With the S-Kill nerfs, that matchup looks a whole lot more in stream's favor.

This is an interesting theory given that the thing that really took it over the edge in S-Kill's favor is quite notably still there and the new tweaked movement for S-Kill removes some of the old issues he had. As well, S-Kill was always one of the rare characters that could take Stream's space without a whole lot of issue and now he's actually better at doing that.

Good luck c:

I think you're underestimating how much the "complete invulnerability on the way up" completely neuters stream's ability to play offensively.  Stream's kicks are so slow that not knowing where S-kill appears is also a major problem.  Trick is still going to be a pain to deal with, but at least I feel like i can put much more credible pressure on S-kill as they build meter.

Again, this is all just speculation until I actually get to play with the new changes.  But at least for me, the lack of teleporting seems like it just took away one of the things that makes that matchup so one sided.  Maybe "in stream's favor" was the wrong phrase.  But I can't imagine the removal of teleporting makes it more lopsided than it already is.  And it seems like it'll push it closer to even.

airco

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2014, 09:50:52 pm »
I never said The Baz was unfair.  I said he FELT unfair.  Big difference! You don't want players losing if they can't figure out how/why.  Even if it is totally fair, it has to also FEEL fair, or it hurts the game.

I guess, but I never got the feeling that he was unfair to fight against even before I started maining him (post patch, anyway - 1.0 Baz was complete and total unfun bullshit for everyone involved). But I did play against someone earlier who was complaining that he had no idea how to fight Baz (after winning quite a few matches against me), so I guess the general feeling among other players is that he's kinda bullshit, even given his flaws.

And god damn this forum really hates letting me post, huh. ( ._.)

LocoJoe

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2014, 10:01:58 pm »
I'm more than okay with Kung's changes. There wasn't much else that needed to be done with her anyway.

Also, since I've been able to play John Martin's Redacted on a fairly consistent basis, I'm very sad to see that her hitbox in Feral Stance is going to remain the same. With her Cornered Beast buff, it is going to be even more difficult to get in on her now.
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King9999

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2014, 10:03:40 pm »
RE: Pao/O. Baz matchup

The match basically boiled down to Pao chasing down Baz while Baz sat back and gained meter.  The only way you could really win rounds was by anticipating Baz's flight path and attacking where he lands (and hoping you hit him).  Baz pretty much controls the match otherwise.  If Baz gets KF, there's no way Pao can avoid it.  You might as well stand still.  Mighty Swing isn't needed for the matchup.  Against New Baz, the lightning will still be a problem, just not as much now.

I'm hoping that with Pao's buffs, there will be a lot more Pao players in general.  I hate feeling like I'm the only one that uses her (and CanadianBaconz).
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 10:05:41 pm by King9999 »
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dawgpilez

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2014, 10:04:39 pm »
Was there any reason not to strengthen Jefailey's kickback? He doesn't get to do a charged kickback kick at all and the range sucks.

Still no head deflation on J-fail after getting hit. Kinda of something everyone has been asking for. He needs better recovery in Kf b/c he only has (basically) one approach with his charged kick. That stuff is easy to dodge. It's a chore if not easily zoned out to have to kick-kick to try to get some type of leverage. AND HE DOESN'T CHARGE ANY FASTER. I really really like you guys ignored some of the critical changes necessary for J-fail. I don't see how cancelling a kick into Disqualified is going to do anything as he won't have much charge to do a following kick and will only be asking to get murdered by high divers. Just seems impractical. Unless he got a full charge after using DQ, it doesn't seem very useful. Comeon guys...

I'm looking forward to the Redacted changes. Hopefully they help to not getting HSed... Does CB send her backwards or to the closest wall? Seems like a Feint but she can't kick out of it or cancel a kick from it. Does it send her flying in an arc (Feint)? It's an interesting idea that I will have to see how it works in game. Sounds awesome against Shoals, Stream, and Sensei.

40 seconds of the old S-kill... that's like 2~4 matches... idk... sounds like a global buff to his character in kf.

We shall see.....
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Fuzzmosis

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2014, 10:14:36 pm »
Still pretty sure you broke Mr. N. Okay, so I'm less dangerous in Kickfactor, but since my other tools were buffed so heavily... things gonna get bad for a lot of matchups.

Or hell, could be wrong.

Also, I'm playing more Baz as a farewell. In fact, my only Baz.


airco

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2014, 10:18:06 pm »
Also, since I've been able to play John Martin's Redacted on a fairly consistent basis, I'm very sad to see that her hitbox in Feral Stance is going to remain the same. With her Cornered Beast buff, it is going to be even more difficult to get in on her now.

Oh yeah, that's another thing. Feral Stance's hitbox is downright silly, and it's really confusing to fight someone who knows how to use it. And now the move got buffed.

The match basically boiled down to Pao chasing down Baz while Baz sat back and gained meter.  The only way you could really win rounds was by anticipating Baz's flight path and attacking where he lands (and hoping you hit him).  Baz pretty much controls the match otherwise.  If Baz gets KF, there's no way Pao can avoid it.  You might as well stand still.  Mighty Swing isn't needed for the matchup.  Against New Baz, the lightning will still be a problem, just not as much now.

I dunno. In my experience, Kung covers so much ground with her kick that there's little meter Baz can hope to gain before needing to cross over her to get out of her way. Kung's low kick height usually meant that lightning was pretty risky too, and I often found my Baz in the right position for Mighty Swing to hit anyway.

enemyplayer

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2014, 10:18:27 pm »
40 seconds of the old S-kill... that's like 2~4 matches... idk... sounds like a global buff to his character in kf.

KF is really good on S-Kill still. It'll be great having access to Old S-Kill but remember: you can see his kickback teleports now. Not sure how much this will change the guessing game for a lot of players but I'm not keen on revealing my hand so learn to read the tells. S-Kill doesn't get a speed buff anymore either so you'll never have to deal with a ridiculously fast S-Kill: just one with a trick at the ready (2 if you're spamming.) Invincibility on demand for 40 seconds is nothing to scoff at.

Terotrous

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2014, 10:18:49 pm »
Was there any reason not to strengthen Jefailey's kickback? He doesn't get to do a charged kickback kick at all and the range sucks.
Increased jump velocity should be a slight buff to his kickback too.

Adelheid

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2014, 10:33:41 pm »

I think you're underestimating how much the "complete invulnerability on the way up" completely neuters stream's ability to play offensively.  Stream's kicks are so slow that not knowing where S-kill appears is also a major problem.  Trick is still going to be a pain to deal with, but at least I feel like i can put much more credible pressure on S-kill as they build meter.

Again, this is all just speculation until I actually get to play with the new changes.  But at least for me, the lack of teleporting seems like it just took away one of the things that makes that matchup so one sided.  Maybe "in stream's favor" was the wrong phrase.  But I can't imagine the removal of teleporting makes it more lopsided than it already is.  And it seems like it'll push it closer to even.

Sure, sure, it will probably be less uneven. You might even beat up most S-Kills. But honestly, his general movement is better even if he doesn't spend most of it invuln. His double jump style is very good on its own, and lets him be very discerning in exactly how much he moves forward (or back!) at once; even without being invisible it's hard to tell what exact combination he's doing. So, I think he'll be fine in that regard; his movement in general is getting faster, so the more I think about it the more I kinda like this. Yes there are downsides? But S-Kill's true strengths are still generally there.

Maximo254

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2014, 10:35:19 pm »
I'm loving the Jefailey Buffs. Please don't do anything Dave Lang said on the stream lol. I think you guys might have made s-kill a lot weaker but thats just me being biased I think cause I really liked the old s-kill as he was. I just wanted him to have an air parry as well as the ground parry instead of the instant over head but hell what do I know. lol. all the changes look really good thus far. I heard them mention a new character. will the new character be released when the ps3 and steam version gets updated or will he be out when the next gen consoles get it?
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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2014, 10:51:17 pm »
Was there any reason not to strengthen Jefailey's kickback? He doesn't get to do a charged kickback kick at all and the range sucks.
Increased jump velocity should be a slight buff to his kickback too.

It is!  And its huge has his gravity goes down.

Keits

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2014, 10:57:23 pm »
will the new character be released when the ps3 and steam version gets updated or will he be out when the next gen consoles get it?

New character is part of the next-gen plan.  Existing platforms will get the character added to their versions as well, though.

Terotrous

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Re: Divekick Addition Edition - Change List
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2014, 11:03:44 pm »
I'm bored so I'll give my thoughts on every character:


Overall:

Thank you for Style gem 15%.  I still feel Dive gem could have used a small buff, but this is still a big improvement in gem viability.

Kickfactor is significantly nerfed for many characters, so specials are now better and more important. 


Dive:

I don't think Dive has changed much.  I feel that the Terminal Velocity change is actually not that major considering that it's not a true uncommit - even if he goes straight down, you can still punish him in the same way in many situations.  I feel it's still really best used for fakeouts and maybe positioning.


Kick:

Of all the characters, I like Kick's changes the least, as I feel he is simply nerfed.  Due to the increased cost on Party Starter, you now really have to be sure it'll hit before you use it, and if you're sure it will hit, the buff is useless.  The increased height might actually remove some situations where he would have gotten a guaranteed headshot.


Mr. N:

Hugely buffed, to an extend that's somewhat worrying.  I feel he's basically a better Dive now, Marneto is a better uncommit than Terminal and it costs much less meter.  GTFO also gives him an escape from a poorly placed kick.  A top tier threat for sure.


Redacted:

Also hugely buffed and another top tier threat.  She was very strong except for one major weakness, which is now gone.  Cornered beast is a hugely scary attack now, too, you can throw that huge hitbox across the screen in an instant.  She's going to be terrifying with meter gem.


Kung Pao:

She got the buffs I wanted, but everyone else got so many buffs I'm now not sure it's enough.  Kung vs Markman is definitely now a lot more winnable for Kung, but the matches against Redacted, Mr N, and Stream are clearly all way worse now.  I think teleport may still cost a bit too much meter, we'll see.


Shoals:

I feel like she isn't substantially changed.  She's not quite the headshot monster she was but she's still super mobile and scary as hell in kickfactor.  Will likely still possess many extremely advantageous matchups.


Uncle Sensei:

Not substantially changed.  He was definitely good already, but he may have fallen a bit to characters who have been buffed more.


Jefailey:

Loving the Jefailey changes.  Fixed all of the huge holes in his character, which should mean it never feels like you just can't win with him.  I still think he's a bit weak, but not unwinnably so now.


The Baz:

I also love new Baz.  I always felt Mighty Swing was better and more interesting than his regular kick, but it cost so much meter that you couldn't use it that often.  I feel like his new air special may have limited use, but it's clearly an improvement.


Markman:

And I got exactly what I wanted here too.  I've been saying for a while that Markman's fundamentals were too strong, rendering his item game somewhat unnecessary.  Buffed items + nerfed fundamentals should make him play the way he was always meant to, but increased mobility options for most of the cast might allow them to get around his items easier.


Stream:

Completely terrifying.  He was already good or top and he's massively buffed.  His specials and kickfactor are all ludicrously strong now, and he has solid fundamentals too.  I think he's probably the new god tier character.


S-Kill:

I love what you did with him, I think he's still good, but no longer in a way that feels unfair or limits most of the cast.  Boss mode will be terrifying though.


Kenny:

He's definitely way buffed, and I think he's very viable now.  He still has the interesting weakness that you can't tell what stance you're in, if it wasn't for this I think he'd be top tier.  It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.