Author Topic: Divekick Update 1 - Change List  (Read 26752 times)

Gunthor the Perilous

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 05:55:59 pm »
You're wrong. [words]

I was top 3 Baz on PS3 in a day. I've done my work. These are not arguments, this is not worth replying to.

Gunthor, dude, chill. He's fine. He's different, but he's fine.

It has been a day, people are still fighting old Baz. Give it a week, or even a month, for people to adjust but this just put The Baz on rock bottom.

enemyplayer

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 06:00:16 pm »
I was top 3 Baz on PS3 in a day. I've done my work. These are not arguments, this is not worth replying to.

And I was #1 overall on Steam. Work harder?

Gunthor the Perilous

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2013, 06:04:00 pm »
I'm not about to start waving my dick around to validate my arguments.

Honestly, do you know what would fix this?

Kfactor Baz kill is an automatic concussion/meter drain ala Disqualified.

Bam, there, Baz kickfactor is scary again, it doesn't take 3-4 rounds against bad matchups, and things are back to where they were with everything still being stabilized across his matchups because his kickfactor is more scary than yours so you cant just build yours for free.

enemyplayer

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2013, 06:08:03 pm »
I'm not about to start waving my dick around to validate my arguments.

Honestly, do you know what would fix this?

Kfactor Baz kill is an automatic concussion/meter drain ala Disqualified.

Bam, there, Baz kickfactor is scary again, it doesn't take 3-4 rounds against bad matchups, and things are back to where they were with everything still being stabilized across his matchups because his kickfactor is more scary than yours so you cant just build yours for free.

That's stupid though. You could just grind out your meter during concussion and begin a cycle of hurting that is neither fun nor very proportionate to what you've actually done to earn it.

KF lasts 2 and a half seconds. Count that out in your head. Now count to 3. Ending it on a kill is only removing your ability to dunk on kids who have never played before. You earn meter faster now. You retain all the benefits of the rest of your kit with the added bonus of getting it faster.

You are knee jerking to the removal of a scrub tactic. Also: "I'm not about to start waving my dick around to validate my arguments." is the worst copout to actually waving your dick around the post prior :V

Keits

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2013, 06:11:59 pm »
I maintain that Baz is better overall now, as his hard matchups got a little easier.

That said, I'm not going to play the game for you.  If you disagree, that is totally fine.  I could very well be wrong.  I'd like to wait a few months and see how it shakes out, though.


Gunthor the Perilous

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2013, 06:17:27 pm »
That is why I suggested the alternative of a straight meter drain like disqualified. I thought straight concussion may have been too much in itself, it is just more relateable to the overall goal, IE, you can't win a meter grind against the Baz, so don't try, go in on him.

No, ending it on a kill is 3~ less rounds scored on Kick, 2~ less rounds scored on Kung Pao, 2~ less rounds scored on Markman, 1~ less round scored on the remainder of the cast, possibly short only S-Kill for that Kickfactor activation.

Honestly? I don't care if those are gone! I agree that the Baz doesn't just need a ton of free rounds versus specific bad matchups, that was something that should have been changed, especially for Kick. The bad thing here is, The Baz now has the worst Kickfactor in the game. Period. It's a self Disqualified that the opponent can dodge entirely depending on matchup, and if you do snag a kill with it then the opponent has all of the meter advantage in the world for their own kickfactors/whatevers so they just don't care about that single loss.

It just needs a reason to be scary so the enemy comes to The Baz so The Baz can function as a character. At the moment, with this nerf it is damn near detrimental because getting Kfactor once means you're out 2 Shockers or 3 Mighty Swings on the following round, especially out of the gate.

Gunthor the Perilous

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2013, 06:21:53 pm »
I maintain that Baz is better overall now, as his hard matchups got a little easier.

That said, I'm not going to play the game for you.  If you disagree, that is totally fine.  I could very well be wrong.  I'd like to wait a few months and see how it shakes out, though.

I'm calling this now, for your months from now review. If The Baz ranked stats start dropping like flys across the board, this is why.

Please give serious consideration to a Kfactor Baz kill draining both player's meters to 0, not just The Baz's. That would be the best fix you could implement, imho. Until then, I can only hope you're right, because once people get savvy to how weak The Baz's offensive potential is you're going to have the exact inverse of this problem you just fixed in every single vs Baz matchup, and it's going to start cropping up quickly once it does catch on.

enemyplayer

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2013, 06:24:48 pm »
I would greatly consider using your KF time to set up a Mighty Swing or assert your spacing. It's 2.5 seconds where you can do _whatever you want_ completely uncontested. Baz's feet DO work and now they work a little faster.

Keits

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2013, 06:30:26 pm »
I just want to put this out there;

Online rankings have very little to do with how well a character actually stacks up in a realistic, top end matchup chart.  They are a measure of who has the most points, not who is the best, and give me no indication of how players are handling (or failing to handle) different matchups.

So if your plan is to point to that later, don't.

Gunthor the Perilous

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2013, 06:40:32 pm »
I would greatly consider using your KF time to set up a Mighty Swing or assert your spacing. It's 2.5 seconds where you can do _whatever you want_ completely uncontested. Baz's feet DO work and now they work a little faster.

Do I honestly have to comment on how painful it is to read "Use your kickfactor to set up a Mighty Swing"?

Is that how bad it is now? Would you ever tell another character "Hey Kick, use your kickfactor to make sure you land that one Party Starter!" or "Hey Redacted, that kickfactor could let you wallcling once super well!" with a straight face?

Kickfactor takes the most effort in the game to achieve with any character, it needs to level the field or provide an advantage above and beyond "you can use it to maybe land your other special that you could have simply done three times instead, and will no longer be able to do in the following round."

As far as I consider it, I'de rather never get kickfactor and simply sit on full meter at all times with this change.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 06:46:55 pm by Gunthor the Perilous »

enemyplayer

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2013, 06:42:12 pm »
I would greatly consider using your KF time to set up a Mighty Swing or assert your spacing. It's 2.5 seconds where you can do _whatever you want_ completely uncontested. Baz's feet DO work and now they work a little faster.

Do I honestly have to comment on how painful it is to read "Use your kickfactor to set up a Mighty Swing"?

Is that how bad it is now? Would you ever tell another character "Hey Kick, use your kickfactor to make sure you land that Party Starter!" or "Hey Redacted, that kickfactor could let you wallcling super well!" with a straight face?

Kickfactor takes the most effort in the game to achieve with any character, it needs to level the field or provide an advantage above and beyond "you can use it to maybe land your other special that you could have simply done three times instead, and will no longer be able to do in the following round."

As far as I consider it, I'de rather never get kickfactor and simply sit on full meter at all times with this change.

ok well it's good to know I won't ever have to worry about you doing anything except try to fly into me when you get KF. thanks for your input.

enemyplayer

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2013, 06:44:46 pm »
I mean, you only jump higher and kick faster why use these tools to corner your opponent for a kill you know you can score? that's just CRAZY TALK.

Gunthor the Perilous

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2013, 06:48:17 pm »
I mean, you only jump higher and kick faster why use these tools to corner your opponent for a kill you know you can score? that's just CRAZY TALK.

Because The Baz doesn't jump higher or kick faster in Kickfactor, you idiot.

Do you honestly know nothing about the character you're discussing? He's like Jefaily, he doesn't get statistical bonuses, he just gets the death hitbox.

SuccinctAndPunchy

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2013, 06:50:22 pm »
Just throwing my two cents into the matter that I really like the sound of this patch on paper. Having a Baz grind out kickfactor over the course of a couple of rounds where you fail to headshot him only for Baz to immediately turn around and grab 2-3 rounds off you with basically no effort was extremely frustrating and really not fun. Thank you for altering this.

Not been able to have a game with a Baz to see if it's a fun fight now, so I'm not sure how it actually plays out in practice.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 06:57:14 pm by SuccinctAndPunchy »

enemyplayer

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Re: Divekick Update 1 - Change List
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2013, 06:51:44 pm »
I mean, you only jump higher and kick faster why use these tools to corner your opponent for a kill you know you can score? that's just CRAZY TALK.

Because The Baz doesn't jump higher or kick faster in Kickfactor, you idiot.

Do you honestly know nothing about the character you're discussing? He's like Jefaily, he doesn't get statistical bonuses, he just gets the death hitbox.

Admittedly I was making a blanket statement but for real if you don't see the benefit of having 2.5 invincible seconds to start a setup when you're already a highly mobile character then really you should be spending more time in the lab.

I swear it's like you just want to press Kick 50 times until your numbers get big or whatever.