Author Topic: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread  (Read 14703 times)

Argenrost

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The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« on: August 21, 2013, 02:57:50 pm »
9/19 CHANGES: More Baz, yo.

Post here to discuss Redacted's match-ups. I'll be updating the IP with details as they come. Keep discussion reasonable and whatnot, you know the drill.


Vs. Dive

Verdict: Slight Disadvantage
Gem: Dive or Kick

Okay, I give up; I just can't figure out a well-defined strategy for this match-up. It might actually be Redacted's hardest match-up in disguise, but you only see this when you play against the best Dive players. There's a world of difference between mediocre Dive players and truly proficient Dive players.

Here are the two rules of thumb:

1) Always threaten footsies. With proper spacing you will come out on top in footsies situations between your naturally high minimum dive height and the large hitbox on your kick.
2) Do not let Dive build meter for free, ever. Terminal Velocity hurts Dive in this match-up more than it helps him but Parabolic Arc makes the footsies game much more difficult. Kickfactor is a death sentence. If Dive reaches Kickfactor, run for your life. This is probably the only match-up where Cornered Beast has real merit; you do not want to take risks against Kickfactor Dive, 95% of the time you'll just get wrecked. If he makes a really big mistake then by all means punish him, but otherwise do everything you can to run down the clock.

Play solid. Play smart. Play patient. Thank the God of Divekicking if you score a head shot. The only way to consistently win this match-up is to 100% outplay your opponent, and his job is a lot easier than yours. But you definitely have the means to win.

Vs. Dr. Shoals

Verdict: Advantage - Major Advantage
Gem: Dive REQUIRED

Easily Redacted's best match-up; Shoals has to play random as hell just to avoid fraudulence. The key is to operate from at least mid-screen and punish her for ever committing to a kick. YOLO foot dive from the top of the screen = free D-K above her unless she flight cancels. She can only directly punish you if she flight cancels early, and even this can be avoided if you know what to look for.

If Shoals starts doing minimum height D-K-K to build meter, press forward quickly and try to catch her on the way down; even if she kickbacks out you quickly push her into the corner this way. You should only ever press forward against Shoals if she's building meter like this, and you must be ready to react with D-K if she only kicks once in an attempt to catch you.

If she somehow scores a head shot on you, accept that you might have to lose the round unless you position yourself carefully. Head shots are the only way she can actually beat you.

Vs. Jefailey

Verdict: Even
Gem: Dive

Jefailey can be a tough match-up at first, but it's actually very manageable when you understand a few crucial concepts.

First of all, pick Dive Gem; your ultimate goal is to get above him. If you can do this safely, you have a distinct advantage, and with the right spacing it's almost a surefire kill. Furthermore, approach him carefully; he's disturbingly good at scoring head shots on you.

Secondly, be aware of his kick charge. Some Jefailey players kick frequently to build meter; these are more easily approachable. Some like to go for fully-charged kicks all the time; these are much more difficult to approach, as fully-charged kicks are especially dangerous to Redacted. Thankfully, there's Feral Stance; Feral Stance is extremely good at shutting down Jefailey's offense, and if you catch him diving and trying to kick you out of Feral Stance, surprise him by diving above him and taking your free round.

Lastly, be aware of his meter. This is why you don't want to play as passively against Jefailey as I once thought; Disqualification will forever deny you of Kickfactor, and Timer Scam gives him the advantage when trying to hold the line unless you beat him to the line and camp it (which is totally a viable strategy and highly recommended if he's not threatening to build Kickfactor).

Kickfactor Jefailey can be highly problematic. Thankfully it's pretty easy to react and punish him if he commits too hastily, and Feral Stance works wonders.

Vs. Kenny

Verdict: Even - Slight Advantage
Gem: Dive

Two quick things about fighting Kenny that are worth noting at all:
1) Know your match-ups to some extent, or at least know Redacted fundamentals. More than likely, Kenny players don't know how every other character fights Redacted. This is your edge.
2) Pay attention to Kenny's meter; Spirit Bullet cancels are very dangerous and the reason Kenny is good at all. Create distance as soon as you see it coming, then hold your ground when you're far enough away. Feral Stance helps.

Play solid. The success of the Kenny player is entirely based on overall skill.

Vs. Kick

Verdict: Even
Gem: Kick

In my experience, this is a much easier version of the Dive match-up because footsies are everything and you tend to win more often than you lose if your spacing is good. Kick can still be very dangerous, especially in Kickfactor, but you can easily come out on top in this match-up just by having good reactions. A refreshingly simple and straightforward match-up.

Vs. Kung Pao

Verdict: Slight Disadvantage
Gem: Kick

One of Redacted's most difficult match-ups, but thanks to Feral Stance it can become a lot easier than one would initially think.

Kung Pao has the best unreactable dive kick in the game, primarily because of its range. Furthermore, Kung Pao's kickback travels so far back and so low to the ground that it's very easy for her to bait and punish mistakes. These are the fundamentals of Kung Pao's gameplay and a big reason why she's one of the best characters in the game (in my opinion, anyway).

Kung Pao players who attack too much are free wins, because the nature of her kick dictates that she commits super hard if she's not barely off the ground, and Redacted excels at punishing that kind of a commit. Proficient Kung Pao players are much more challenging, obviously. You can't get much closer than mid-screen to stay safe from unreactables, and if you get too close you need to fish for mistakes and respond accordingly if you guess wrong.

However, once you build the negligible amount of meter required to use Feral Stance (3 kicks), the threat of unreactables becomes almost non-existent, and suddenly she has to change her game plan. FD-FK (Feral Dive to Feral Kick from Feral Stance) punishes reckless unreactable attempts and often leads to a head shot.

Sit in Feral Stance like you have no shame and force her to adapt. It's not foolproof, but it allows you condition her into doing more things she doesn't want to do, giving you a very real chance to fight back.

Vs. Markman

Verdict: Slight Disadvantage
Gem: Kick

I've come to believe once again that this is Redacted's worst match-up, but it's not that much harder than Kung Pao and definitely not as bad as I once thought.

If the Markman player loves to spam Search, let him. If you get too close and he pulls spring or glue, you're done. Markman gets free head shots on Redacted with these two items. Furthermore, Precision Control Mode (PCM) isn't particularly useful if you know what to look for. If anything it tends to make your job easier, because Markman players always want to go in after they get it and as long as you watch for the inevitable Upkick feint you can react and punish no problem.

If the Markman player focuses on building meter, slowly push him into the corner during his kickback but don't try to play footsies with him; he almost always wins the footsies exchange, either because of his superior kick hitbox or because of his godly kickback, which tends to result in you getting hit anyway. Keep your distance from him whenever he starts using Search or when he's about to reach Kickfactor. Don't be too hesitant to act, however; if he uses Search when you're too close to him you can catch him with a free head shot during the animation. You will need space for his Kickfactor though, as you will need time to react.

Always be mindful of Feint. If the Markman player makes an obviously stupid commit, don't take the bait; wait for him to Feint and punish him if he gets too cocky. The key to winning this match-up is to hold the line and force him to come to you whenever possible.

Vs. Mr. N

Verdict: Advantage
Gem: Dive

Mr. N's advantage on you is his meter-building capability, but with Dive Gem you can play very defensively against him and almost always come out on top. Marneto is generally used to punish people for fully committing on a guess, but that's not how Redacted rolls. Marneto is largely a waste of his meter in this match-up if you play it right.

Mr. N players like to commit to a full dive when you get close to them. If you dive as Mr. N reaches the peak of his dive, not even Marneto can save him; it's just like the Dive match-up but Mr. N is a beefier target. Alternatively, if you kickback at this range you can punish him easily if he fully commits. When you find the proper spacing where you can threaten him with these options, the match-up is very easy.

Vs. Redacted (Mirror Match)

Verdict: Dumb
Gem: Dive

This match-up is stupid. But then what mirror match isn't?

The Redacted with superior height leverage usually wins. K-K is a great way to punish the other player if they fully commit from too close. Head shots lead to bad things, don't let it happen to you. Expect lots of toe-taps.

Vs. S-Kill

Verdict: Even
Gem: Dive

I don't have a lot of experience against good S-Kill players, but Dive Gem will give you the height leverage you need to respond to his teleport patterns and catch him out of the air. Always go for toe-taps when you can, avoid Parry like the plague. I've said before that it's a very honest, even match-up when both players are skilled, and I hold to that statement. I'll try to elaborate more when I get more S-Kill experience.

Vs. Stream

Verdict: Even - Slight Advantage
Gem: Dive

I've finally played against enough respectable Stream players to understand the match-up better; that, and I think people in general have a greater understanding of how Stream works. That having been said, this match-up is actually not too difficult, but there are a few caveats.

In general, you want to keep Stream away from the line without getting too close. Never be the aggressor in a tense situation, it will get you killed and possibly tagged with a head shot. This is the scariest match-up in the game to be concussed, as it can be potentially game-ending if you're not careful; you pretty much have to give Stream the next round unless he does something really stupid.

You don't want to be too close because of Flame Bait, which is just as bad as Markman's spring if not worse. You also need to be able to respond if Stream commits to an offensive kick. Dive Gem helps you with this a lot; you don't need Kick Gem because Stream is naturally very slow, so fast reactions aren't as critical to beating him.

Surprisingly this match-up isn't too hard as long as you're patient. Stream only gains a significant advantage against you if he hits you with a head shot, so try to avoid getting concussed at all costs.

Vs. The Baz (Last edited 9/19.)

Verdict: Even(?)
Gem: Dive

Continued thanks to Gunthor the Perilous; our epic #1 Redacted vs. #1 Baz are teaching us a lot about how this match-up goes down.

This is a very different kind of match-up for Redacted because you have to constantly rush him down, even when he threatens Kickfactor. Smart Baz players will steal two rounds from you for free otherwise (one via time, one via kick). If Baz gets the meter for Kickfactor you'll just have to take it like a man unless you're extremely clever with your evasive maneuvers. This leads into arguably the best use for your own Kickfactor; the increased height and speed give you infinitely better movement, which in turn lets you evade Baz's Kickfactor much more easily.

Dive Gem is the superior pick here. Getting above Baz quickly is much more important than trying to react to his kick angle. The same general rule applies, though: err in favor of aiming for low kick angles. If you aim high and he goes low, you lose; if you aim low and he goes high, you're usually safe. Unless he's so good at aiming his angle that he aims for where your head will be, and that's where it gets really tricky. Thankfully, there's a way to make this guessing game a lot easier: always option select Feral Stance on landing! If you do this every time you miss, as long as you didn't aim too high you're usually safe. This is a critically important skill to learn for any match-up but especially for Baz.

Unfortunately, Baz can turn this around on you by intentionally aiming high so he can run away and build more meter, and this creates problems. Mighty Swing is dangerous if you don't expect it but easily countered. The Shocker is a very real threat if he isn't too close to Kickfactor, however, so at times you'll have to watch for it and be patient.

Baz players seem to think this is one of their harder match-ups, but... when playing against a smart Baz there are a lot of risky decisions you have to make very quickly to win consistently, and that's much easier said than done.

Vs. Uncle Sensei

Verdict: Even
Gem: Dive REQUIRED

Don't let the Uncle Sensei players fool you, this match-up is even. Might even be slightly in Redacted's favor unless the Sensei player is really good.

Treat Sensei like Shoals, only with more control over his kick angles. Smart Sensei players will formulate their neutral game around their grounded stance, and you should do the same. When he's in Superman stance you need to be pretty far away, it's hard to react to Superman when you're too close. It is, however, very easy to punish Superman if you anticipate it. In Handstand stance you can afford to pressure him a bit more because you can easily K-K to toe-tap him if he gets too antsy. Speed is your primary asset in this match-up; Sensei kicks more slowly than most characters, and you are very much the opposite. Recognize and make the most out of your advantage!

One last thing: always account for Stance Dance and adjust your area of coverage for both options. This isn't quite as hard as it sounds; all it requires is a bit of intuition and spatial sense. The rule of thumb is to hit K from higher than you would normally do so, but this also depends on his starting stance. At any rate, be mindful of the possibility, learn the player's pattern, and the rest should come naturally.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 05:52:22 pm by Argenrost »
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Warstratigier

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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 03:57:04 pm »
Jeez this makes me feel like a terrible markman now given everytime I have currently faced you I get defeated and even bodied some matches. Though I did try out redacted against a markman and I did see some of the points made....

...and come to think of it you're really the only problematic redacted i have yet to defeat.

Argenrost

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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 04:51:24 pm »
From what I remember from playing you, the only reason you didn't have nearly as much control over the match-up is because you don't abuse Search enough, lol. I played against Psycho Funtime a few games (currently #1 Markman IIRC) and every time he got glue or spring, if I got caught I was eating a head shot 100% of the time. And I've run into some other Markman players who use Feint a lot, and it really messes with how Redacted wants to play the typical match-up. The hitbox on his kick is also larger than Redacted's, which is an accomplishment in itself.

Not to take a stab at my fellow skunk-bears, but I haven't met a Redacted player yet who thinks dynamically about precise match-up details. I don't know how many of them realize Redacted's incredible potential when you have a good sense of spacing and solid reaction time. I firmly believe that Redacted is a contender for top-tier in good hands, but the Markman match-up is highly problematic right now and the Dive and Kung Pao match-ups are sensitive as hell.
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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 04:53:18 pm »
I'll reverse engineer some of my Stream pieces of info against Redacted players. Hopefully it will be of use to you!

AVOID FLAME BAIT. Avoid it with the same tenacity you avoid Markman's spring/glue. When redacted gets stuck in Flame Bait fire, she can ONLY move forward and she does that annoying little short-hop jump until it runs out. This is a guaranteed headshot if I'm still in the air and within kick range of you when I throw this out.

Dive gem Redacted's seem to beat me more than Kick gem users. Being able to get off the ground 10% faster means easier whiff punishes and 10% more height means you have a greater kick-range on the ground.

Keep moving. Don't let me push you into the corner or get in a position where I can jump, use Flame Bait, and get you stuck in the fire.

Will update more as I come across them.

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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 05:51:34 pm »
I Agree with this list for the most part

Can't stand redacted mirror matches lol (i.e me vs you -_-)

I think Baz vs red is actually in her favor. push the baz to the corner and wait for him to try to escape and punish as he is about to go forward. Other option is to wait for him to use the shocker as he tries to time you going in on him.

Vs Markman I believe it's just a waiting game. Use feral stance to build meter while he's just just throwing things out. I haven't had too much difficulty vs him so maybe I haven't fought the right ones =P
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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 06:34:40 pm »
I Agree with this list for the most part

Same here. I had the same thoughts for most of the match-ups.

I just can't play against Mr. N, i don't know what to do, for the reason you mentioned at the beginning. (Height jump and Marneto.) I guess i gotta play more defensive.

Against The Baz, it's just like FiyahLiger says. Once The Baz is in the corner, he'll try to escape, if you time your kick right, he's free, if you don't, you're free.

I'm glad about the Markman part. I can't win against him, except the one over-committing with kicks.

Does someone know what to do against S-Kill ? This match up feels weird. Some of S-Kill I met double teleport and then kicks if i dive in front on them, which can be punished since it'll whiff most of the times if you don't kick. Also, i think his air special might whiffs if you crouch. Not sure about that tho, i don't know exactly how it works yet.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 06:40:40 pm by Renaard »

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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 11:52:51 pm »
Maybe The streams I have been facing have been bad, but I thought stream was pretty easy overall.

I have been spacing so that he has to go horizontal to hit me, and I jump over him. I have only been using the kick gem, so I have been playing against himt he same way I do shoals, which is stay sort of far away and threaten
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Argenrost

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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 09:46:22 am »
Same here. I had the same thoughts for most of the match-ups.

I just can't play against Mr. N, i don't know what to do, for the reason you mentioned at the beginning. (Height jump and Marneto.) I guess i gotta play more defensive.

Against The Baz, it's just like FiyahLiger says. Once The Baz is in the corner, he'll try to escape, if you time your kick right, he's free, if you don't, you're free.

I'm glad about the Markman part. I can't win against him, except the one over-committing with kicks.

Does someone know what to do against S-Kill ? This match up feels weird. Some of S-Kill I met double teleport and then kicks if i dive in front on them, which can be punished since it'll whiff most of the times if you don't kick. Also, i think his air special might whiffs if you crouch. Not sure about that tho, i don't know exactly how it works yet.

I'll be making a bit of an addendum to this list later, but I'll give you some details on the match-ups you mentioned from how I see it.

For Mr. N, it's a matter of playing more defensive like you said; as far as this match-up is concerned, Marneto is the only thing Mr. N has going for him, but if you never attempt to dive in close range it should never pose a problem. Every time I get too close to Mr. N, I kickback; if he tries to respond to your kickback by committing you can either kick him if he does it too early or land-kickback-kick if he does it later. Keep in mind that you need Dive Gem for this match-up too. It all works out beautifully in my experience. Since the PC/Steam release, I've only ever lost to Mr. N once and that was against Reldalk in my first match against a Mr. N since the game went live. Every other Mr. N match I've played, regardless of the player, has been 5-2 at worst for me.

I still need to update my list with The Baz, but I find this match-up to be incredibly easy unless the Baz player is super smart. Good Baz players will often aim low to catch you out of an attempt to react to his kick; the answer against these smarter Baz players is to almost always kick sooner than you would normally expect. Even if he aims high, he usually misses and you get another chance to go in/build Kick Factor. If you're worried about getting hit after landing you can always Feral Stance and avoid the risk. Never move backward in this match-up; for one there's no reason to do it, and for two you need to keep him pressured so he doesn't build Kick Factor. Even if he does, between Redacted's naturally high dive and Feral Stance it's relatively easy for you to guess right, dodge him twice, and then his Kick Factor's done. Smarter Baz players are a lot more intimidating than I once thought, but I still think the match-up is in favor of Redacted for sure.

I may have figured out a working strategy against Markman, but it basically narrows down to "always shoot for time over". Lamest match-up by far but it's pretty much the only way to win. However, for being the only way to win it seems to work quite well.

I still have a bit to learn about the S-Kill match-up, but Redacted is pretty good at toe-taps and kickback-kick is very strong here. If S-Kill tries to build meter, watch for his kicking pattern and surprise him by meeting him at his ideal landing point; S-Kill's kick is essentially an inferior version of Redacted's in every way, the only advantage S-Kill has over Redacted is the amount of flexibility he has in his positioning. I don't think either character really has a significant advantage though, it's a very honest match-up.

Maybe The streams I have been facing have been bad, but I thought stream was pretty easy overall.

I have been spacing so that he has to go horizontal to hit me, and I jump over him. I have only been using the kick gem, so I have been playing against himt he same way I do shoals, which is stay sort of far away and threaten

I may have just been deeply concerned by how bad I got wrecked by G's Stream the few times I've had to play him, but he's really the only Stream player I've ever played, certainly the only one who matters, lol. Judging by his gracious input in this thread, it seems like another match-up where you need to just play super lame and avoid Flame Bait like the plague. I'm glad to see Kick Gem is working out for you, but I feel Dive Gem might be the superior option, especially if you feel like the match-up is comparable to Shoals.
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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 06:47:59 pm »
Super useful information to know! Thanks a ton. I've had a few rough matches with Mr. N, so thanks for the tips on how to get around him.

Any more tricks on fighting Dive/Kick? They keep getting the best of me. That close range game they've got is vicious, but I don't want to go on the defense to allow them to build meter.
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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 11:27:40 pm »
Super useful information to know! Thanks a ton. I've had a few rough matches with Mr. N, so thanks for the tips on how to get around him.

Any more tricks on fighting Dive/Kick? They keep getting the best of me. That close range game they've got is vicious, but I don't want to go on the defense to allow them to build meter.

i found that once you show that you won't buy into Kick's quick little footsie game and you bait him with Crouching, he'll start to open up and show his vulnerable spots.  i got a Kick player to eventually give up with the quick dives and he started taking chances trying to hit me while Crouching once he realized i wasn't going to play into his hand.  instead, i'll let them come to me.  sometimes that isn't smart, but it's worked for me so far.  the trick is to know when they get too close.

also, i've used the Dive gem every time i've played Kick.  for some reason, i've had better luck with it.
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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 12:06:38 am »
I've been cross-referencing this thread with imfree's version on SRK and my own experiences. So far I don't have any major complaints about the information.

Outside of Markman, I've actually been having a lot of trouble with Dives that are smart enough to not play sloppy. I feel like Dive has somewhat more leeway to play aggressively compared to Red in the match-up. I'd like to play it more before I say anything concrete about it, but even with a defensive Red style it's been closer to 4-6 than 5-5 for me.

Beyond match-ups, I feel like Red is particularly weak after being Head Shot compared to other characters because she can't compensate for her inherently poor head placement when concussed (no meter = no crouching). If someone gets greedy I can usually go for a simple Dive -> Kick to punish, but against better players I'm often forced to lose at least one more round.

For Gem choice, I've been favoring Dive Gem against everyone except the very obvious characters where Kick Gem is better (The Baz and Kung Pao). I don't necessarily disagree with the other Kick Gem recommendations, but I'm actually really fond of Redacted's lingering kick. When compared to her dive's naturally fast fall speed, Red's slow kick doubles as a Poor Bear's Marneto in some cases.

Has anyone found more advanced uses for Redacted's specials? They all seem awfully straight-forward compared to what Mr. N or Shoals can do with theirs. The only trick I think could be useful is plinking Feral Stance to bait opponents into thinking you're diving out of it. At least client-side, it creates a silhouette of Red jumping for ~5 frames; while not much, it's at least a lower commitment bait alternative to a kickback.

If I can't find a solution to Dive or Markman, I may begin the search for a counter-pick earlier than I planned... which is a shame, because Redacted was the only character I enjoyed when I went through the entire cast in Story Mode.

Thanks much for the thread, Arge.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 12:10:01 am by FenixStryk »

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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2013, 12:26:30 am »
I Agree with this list for the most part
Does someone know what to do against S-Kill ? This match up feels weird. Some of S-Kill I met double teleport and then kicks if i dive in front on them, which can be punished since it'll whiff most of the times if you don't kick. Also, i think his air special might whiffs if you crouch. Not sure about that tho, i don't know exactly how it works yet.

what i do is wait out his teleports patiently (which can be tough to do since he can kick right out of his teleports) and make sure he doesn't try to get in close.  if he does, i either Crouch or try to high-tail it out of there (no pun intended) or just try to punish a possible whiff with a quick dive. 

i think S-Kill is a pain in the butt, but if you are patient with his teleport crap, he's very beatable.  also, it doesn't hurt to Crouch just to show that you're not going to just sit there and wait for him to kick from teleport in the corners.  i mean, if he's just going to fool around in the corners with his teleport junk, you might as well build some meter while he's dicking around :p
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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2013, 01:07:22 am »
I actually feel the opposite about headshot, I am pretty confident in living. Being headshot or not doesn't really worry me.


Also, I have noted that Dive with kickfactor is not a big deal, because they change to be aggresive, and it is still pretty easy to kickback and kill them. The main thing is that the "safe zone" where you can get them changes to be somewhere else
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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2013, 03:04:16 am »
Super useful information to know! Thanks a ton. I've had a few rough matches with Mr. N, so thanks for the tips on how to get around him.

Any more tricks on fighting Dive/Kick? They keep getting the best of me. That close range game they've got is vicious, but I don't want to go on the defense to allow them to build meter.

i found that once you show that you won't buy into Kick's quick little footsie game and you bait him with Crouching, he'll start to open up and show his vulnerable spots.  i got a Kick player to eventually give up with the quick dives and he started taking chances trying to hit me while Crouching once he realized i wasn't going to play into his hand.  instead, i'll let them come to me.  sometimes that isn't smart, but it's worked for me so far.  the trick is to know when they get too close.

also, i've used the Dive gem every time i've played Kick.  for some reason, i've had better luck with it.

Thanks for the tip. I'm starting to get the edge on my buddie's S-Kill now too. At first he was wrecking my face cause I couldn't time his jumps to save my life, but if you can wait & bait, they aren't too bad.

On the bright side, Mr. N hasn't given me any more problems!  ;D
Guess I got my badger back

Argenrost

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Re: The Official Redacted Match-Up Thread
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2013, 09:32:19 am »
I'm gonna run the gamut here and cover some details on match-ups people asked questions about.

Playing against Kick is a matter of having a good plan of attack when you get within "sweep distance" (hard to really describe when the game is just dive kicks, but... you know). My go-to safe option when I get there is to kickback; if Kick commits after a full dive, you have to react quickly with a kick; success will often grant you a head shot, failure will get you toe-tapped as you land. This isn't what I would call a comfortable situation, but you have to take some calculated risks against Kick because, as you said, you can't just let him build meter; he does it at least twice as fast as you do. Redacted vs. Kick matches always end quickly and are really fast-paced; if nothing else it's a great way to practice your reaction time.  :D When you get more comfortable with your strategy at that close distance, start reading his meter-building patterns and keep him honest by going for a toe-tap where he likes to land. When you show the Kick player you're not afraid to make aggressive plays like this you tip the scales a bit more in your favor.

Against Dive, you have to keep relatively close (mid-screen-ish) so he doesn't get too antsy with meter-building, but you can't be actively aggressive against Dive. It's too easy for him to punish aggression, usually with head shots. You have to bait him into making mistakes while minimizing the amount of risks you take yourself. In short, play patiently; it's easier to react to Dive than to Kick because, naturally, he doesn't kick as fast.

The S-Kill match-up is a little tricky, but it's all about understanding how the character moves. He really sucks at forward movement because his kick has the same angle as Redacted's but he moves backward so much further faster and it's difficult for him to approach low to the ground. The goal is to watch his movement, try to catch him with toe-taps if he gets too reckless with meter-building, and always stay on the move when he has Trick. You should always be going for toe-taps against S-Kill anyway, but Redacted is inherently pretty good at these anyway and his long, lanky limbs tend to be easy to catch.

As far as head shots go, Redacted clearly suffers more than any other character in the game from a head shot (in my opinion) because her mobility is almost non-existent. But the disadvantage is only really noticeable against certain characters (Stream -_-;); in fact, you can often take rounds or even score head shots while dealing with a head shot yourself because people tend to get much more aggressive at this point, often overly so. Do we really need to go over what Redacted is inherently good at punishing?  ;)
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